Hi I have just got the new Sebart Apollo s 50e here in the UK.
The quality is excellent and everything fits perfectly, it's almost ready to maiden, but it needed 300 grams of weight in the front of the cowling to achieve the CG of 15 centimetres, which is a lot, I used 15 gram servos for elevator and 25 gram servo for rudder, motor is a Turnigy 5055 430 and weights 380 grams, battery is 5200 6s at 580 grams pushed up to the firewall.
Hope to fly it soon when it finally stops raining!!

Joe,

Congrats on getting the ApolloS.
Battery weight seems unusually light. When I flew 50 sized Sebart planes on 6S 5000's they were 700+ grams for 25C - I use Hacker Eco X batteries for my 2M planes and they have great durability and are light, even a 6S Eco X-5000 weights 653g and the 6100mA version weighs 766g. Once you get to fly the plane and can fully determine the best CG for you then you can determine what options are available to eliminate the nose weight - bigger capacity batteries and changing the ruder servo to closed loop are 2 options that come to mind.

Steve

Hi Joe,
I have almost finished assembling one of these.
It appears that I am going to have to put a boat load of lead up front to achieve the balance point !!!
​Have you flown yours yet, is the balance point conservative or spot on, in which case I'm going to have to add a lot of weight up front line you've had to do.
I look forward to hearing what your flying experiences were like.

A catalogue of contradictions !!!!
I've had to put 390g, approx 3/4 lb in the nose to achieve the balance point at the front of the joiner.
Sebart gives the weight of the plane and the weight of a battery, but it won't balance without the additional nose weight.
Sebart says fly with a 4500 to 5000 6s.
Dealer website says fly with a 5800 6s.
Instructions with the model say :
6s setup 5800 6s.
8s setup 5800 6s as well !!!!

Sebart says use 3 standard servos plus 2 minis for the elevator halves but you would have a heavy servo for rudder and a lot of cutting out to do, possibly not leaving much for a standard servo to screw onto.
Dealer website suggests some servos, but they are smaller than the holes in the plane !!

The overall weight of the plane comes in at about 9.5 lbs 4.4kg.

Motor choice, I chose a Dualsky motor with about the same performance as the recommended Hacker A50 16s with a 16 x 12 or 17 x 10 prop.
Hacker website says this motor is 1200 Watts for 15 seconds and max power is on the 16 x 12 at 1590 Watts...similar to the Dualsky.
On a fully charged battery you get 167 Watts / lb.....however towards the end of the flight as the voltage drops towards storage charge levels you are down to about 119 Watts / lb....little more than a trainer performance and certainly not enough for big smooth uplines with the drag of a roll on the way up if you put one in.
So I've had to order a more powerful motor and wasted money on a motor of similar performance to the recommended Hacker A50 16s.

In conclusion, the model looks great, and I hope it will fly beautifully, but the info from Sebart is a catalogue of contradictions, misleading information and poor advice.....phew !!!!
I hope all this will be forgotten once I fly her.

I just downloaded the 'Apollo S 50E manual introduction' - it's says: 5 mini servo for AILE, ELEV and RUDD and also says '..5 MINI MG digital servo (JR S3411 or S3911)'
Those servo's are about 30g each.
There is also thread on the RCG F3A pattern forum for the Apollo 50, Joseph Szczur posted a couple of days ago that he will soon receive one and will do a build log, he is the designer of the original 2M Apollo.

Steve

You're right, but here is a screenshot of what Sebart Europe website says

I get a strong sense that Sebart have either rushed the release of the documentation for the Apollo 50 or their process for producing them is broken, like you say there are several contradictions. They used to be very good, unfortunately it seems to be common in the F3A world that build instructions/guides/recommendations are becoming increasingly sparse or even in the case of BJ Craft non existent !!

Steve

Joined Aug 2007
62 Posts

Contradictions

Hi guys

I have also fallen for the Apollo and ordered one. I will pick it up next week.
Of course I have also done my research and must agree, that there is mixed signals. The promised flying weight was certainly one thing that lured me in.
Having read about the weight needed in the nose to balance the plane made me think about the setup.
Here are my considerations:

- I will possibly use a heavier motor than I had planed (will decide later)
- KST Servo CM509MG all surfaces
- Rudder with PULL PULL system (I hope this is possible from the layout)
- Possibly build my own, wider motor dome to make it possible, to slide the battery further forward

Setup I am aiming for a 6S Setup with 5000mAh, targeting for an all over weight in the region of 3.5kgs.
I will see what is possible, once I have the parts in my hands and can "dry build" the plane.

As for the instructions, I realized, that it really needed an update already. Bad marks there for SEBA unfortunately!

I have converted the Angel 50 EVO already to the mentioned servos. Yes the openings are for standard servos, but lets be honest, we are still builders and when you build a model like this, you are certainly NOT a beginner!

For a model like the Apollo, what a professional builder/pilot needs, is a starting point for the setup, thats it.

I am looking forward to receiving the model and will make my next post, once I have made plans on how to procced.

Cheers from Switzerland,
Martin

Mine is ready to fly. Heavier more powerful motor on....Dualsky 4130c 1920 Watts diving 200 Watts / lb on a fully charged battery.
I've put some pictures of her with her lead slippers up front and with the cowl on.
from above, a blind man on a galloping donkey wouldn't see the additions to the motor box 🙄
I've sprayed the inside of the canopy blue, and gone for a 'push through' carbon rod to secure it.
Just waiting for a calm day now.

How much lead did you end with to achieve balance? It looks great, but awaiting your flight report. Good luck with the maiden!

It was 270g in the end.
I'll report when the conditions are favourable for a maiden.
Kevin

Wow! Over 9 ounces of lead? That's not very encouraging. I would fly it with an 8s 4000mah lipo pack. Hope the maiden flight works out for you.

Thanks for that, even if you put 8s batteries in....the overall weight at the front has to be enough to balance, of course.....then you need a motor powerfull enough for the weight....be it in more batteries and less or no lead, or less batteries and some lead .
Hopefully, the maiden will make all this angst disappear 🤞

I can appreciate what you have to say and your plans to resolve the tail heavy issue of your Apollo S. I went thru all of these same issues 10 years ago with a Mythos 125e from Sebart. You would think after all these years they would finally get it right. I think in the end it will be matter of you finding a balance in the combination of motor, lipo cell count/milliamps and the right prop to achieve your goals. Keep us posted.

I can't believe Sebart were doing the same 10 years ago....pretty poor !!!!
I didn't have any of this with my Angel and Mytho S 50 size, so this has been disappointing to put it mildly......I've no idea how Sebart could be so incompetent......or just plain lying about specs, which is even worse.

Yes, I agree. It's unfortunate but, the quality control standards have slipped dramatically in recent years. It's gotten so bad, you don't know who you can trust and if it's manufactured in China, lookout! Their excuse, "I'm just the seller, take your complaints up with the manufacturer". This is part of the reason why very few of the sellers provide a baseline set of instructions with their kits. They don't want to be held responsible for ANYTHING and/or just plain don't care. The bottom line, do your own due diligence, research and ask a lot of questions before you EVER place an order. Nothing is more discouraging than having bought "a pig in a poke".

Sadly, you're right.....prior to this, I thought Sebart was a guarantee of quality production.....I consider that bubble well and truly burst....what a shame.
looking on the bright side, it might be a cracker in flight 🤞

Hope you are able to overcome these issues. My motto, if I can't figure it out myself, I ask for help from someone I trust.

This is puzzling. I took some measurements from my Apollo and made some assumptions: 1) the recommended C/G is correct; 2) the only component location which can be varied is the battery; 3) the recommended equipment was used in the prototype shown in the photos. I have performed numerous computations varying weights of the tail servos, the motor, the battery(ies) (if 4S lipos are used), battery location from the one in the photo to maximum forward position. The worst case scenario, heavy tail - light nose, only required 6.5 ounces of nose lead (at the motor mount) to balance. Does the prototype have a lighter tail structure than the production version? I prefer a lighter model; so if I need to move the tail servos behind the wing tube I will. I also prefer to use a lighter motor for a 6S set-up. I certainly appreciate the information provided from those who have their Apollo models ready to fly.

I owned a MythoS 125 a few years back and never had the issue you describe. I ran it on 8S (as most did) and had to put the batteries as far back as I could.
Perhaps you ran it on 6S ?? - that was what Sebart originally stated for some bizarre reason. this was a 1.9M long model, 6S would never fly a schedule comfortably. I found 2200W was the sweet spot for this plane, on 6S that equates to a current draw of around 100A !! Even more bizarre when you consider the MythoS 125 predecessor, the Wind 110 was designed for 8S from the very start.

Steve